you wrote about stepping into the darkness of the unknown and i feel as though i look into a mirror again…i’ve written that, myself, often. i step into the darkness of the unknown because i trust the one who became known.

regarding sin, singular:
in the garden of eden, adam’s sin separated him and all of us from the LIFE of God. because of Jesus we are reconciled to LIFE. so i agree with what you say.

Romans 5:9-11 (New King James Version)

9 Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from wrath through Him. 10 For if when we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life. 11 And not only that, but we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received the reconciliation.

it is done.
it is finished.

thanks for the verses….going to read them!

Jennifer, my wife, shed new light onto this. After reading this and considering God, she said that she would never follow a human leader that did these kid of things, and if she did, it would simply be out of pure fear and self-preservation, not love. And yet we’ll follow a God who would do this? You mention how love covers a multitude of sins. It is interesting where the Bible says, “Behold the lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world!” to note the singularity of “sin” not “sins” … Jesus took away the sin of the world, the whole thing, in one fell swoop. “‘The sin’ is in the singular, indicating the complete removal of the ‘sin principle’, or sin itself with all of its consequences, not just the individual acts of sin.” Mufasa! Say it again! Here is a link to NT verses that point to God reconciling all things: http://jeromyj.com/mendingshift/wp-content/uploads/2008/03/reconcilation-scriptures.doc

But its true what you say how it feels like the foundations are crumbling all around you. I felt the same way. Then when they were are crumbled and I stepped into the darkness of the unknown, you know what I found? I was still in God’s hands. Those foundations were simply MY foundations, the safe things I had known and believed. But anyhow, that a whole other conversation…

this is like holding a gentle mirror up to the light. hearing a tender, ‘really?’ in response to old beliefs. really, you’re going to believe that about Me? how could i ever believe such terrible things about the good and gentle shepherd?

when we hear things fresh, in warm, red language, it brings it home. it’s emotional because on one hand, it’s a crumbling of entire lifetimes of thought, showing whether the work is made of steel or straw. on the other, it’s the bringing in of a better hope. it can be a little scary. not bad scary, just unknown. there are many things i don’t understand, scriptures i can’t reconcile. as i test all things and hold fast the good, it can be startling when some tests ~ ones i’ve built theology around ~ fail. this journey has accelerated over the last few months and it’s so joyous…and at the same time, much like birth and the newness of life, there is pain and uncertainty and shedding of the old.

so that’s what i meant. prolly more than you wanted to know.

Regarding what you believe, we are both on the same page, it seems. Except though I believe that some may reject God’s love initially, I believe that indeed, God will draw all men to godself and ultimately reconcile all. How, that is not up to me, I just believe/hope that will ultimately be as God says it will. Almost like a child taking a trip to Disneyland with daddy, I don’t need to know all the travel details just that Daddy said we’ll one day arrive there.

I also agree about hell, hence this post. Why the initial negative approach? Because much like contrast in design, it serves a purpose, and without it, the positive doesn’t stand out as much. Also, since most people don’t get the opportunity to study from the ivory towers (though there are some that teach a literal hell) and instead get their theology from the grassroots and local churches, there are a lot of people who have been handed this theology. I am excited to see that you studied for yourself and didn’t just take the churches/pastors word. Most do, however. There are even camps where thousands of kids come for the summer and hear clear messages on hell and Jesus’ salvation from it. Sometimes we need to see “our” theology in the light and see it for what it is. Trust me, I wish that this story didn’t exist, but it does in many minds and churches.

And yes, the followup perspective is coming soon. Same characters, far different ending.

Here are some other posts along these same lines.

http://jeromyj.com/mendingshift//2009/01/07/the-war-is-over/
http://jeromyj.com/mendingshift//2008/03/23/here-i-stand%e2%80%94on-gods-love-for-all-2/

Now Hell with fire is a whole other post entirely. Fire is a metaphor. Here’s something to get people thinking:
Gehenna (Hell) is where the worm (maggot) does not die and the fire is not quenched (Mk 9:43-44). Gehenna refers to the valley of Himmon (or valley of slaughter), south of Jerusalem where idolatrous Jews had sacrificed their children to the god Molech (the god of fire). It was later turned into the city’s garbage dump, where everything from dead animals and criminals, to other kinds of refuse were thrown into a continuously burning fire. This putrid, corrupt, horrific place was the perfect metaphor for Hell. Hell can’t be all fire as it’s also described as a place of darkness (Mat 8:12). I suspect, like many others, that Hell is a state of separation from all that is God – only for those who have genuinely turned down the invitation to the party (see above). Will Hell last forever? No. Forever in this sense means a specific period of time. How long? Only God knows, and I trust in Him as a God of love and compassion to deal with each individual as He sees fit. I imagine though that even five minutes of total separation from God would seem like eternity when going through it.

Just a thought though… I realise these are the stories you’ve heard but it’s a bit tit for tat. Rather than sharing from cynicism (which we have enough of in Xian circles) would it not be a good thing to share the story from the flip? I think it could be equally eye opening but positive rather than negative. Keep at it though, it’s good to see people thinking about what they believe.

sorry… I did intend to only write a paragraph.

Reading that, kind of gave me chills, kind of made me sick, and really very clearly demonstrates the contradictory message of the traditional evangelical “Good News.” Yikes.

It’s so painful that this is what I grew up believing, what I listened to over and over, what I invited others into. God forgive us…

Wow! I have good news. I saw Jesus in the story of Joseph like never before. I wrote a quick article about it here: http://www.prlog.org/11278042-was-joseph-greater-than-jesus.html